Hi folks.
New to the forum and have searched as best I can on the topic I wish to sort, but I can’t find any thing as yet.
Apologies if I have missed posts relating to this topic.
I have a vevor S3018 laser table (Domestic I would think) which I wish to etch letters and numbers on a 0.6mm thick aluminium anodised plate.
(Blue anodised, if that is important - Probably 20 - 30 micron thick plating)
The 20W (5W optical from what I can understand) unit I have currently just barely etches the surface when I can get it to focus, which seems difficult on it’s own.
Any suggestions for upgrade laser or other options to perform this work on a 250mm x 100mm anodised aluminium plate?
I have tried many attempts to make the 20W unit to work, but it just seems underpowered from all tests.
Yes it will etch/burn timber and polycarbonate, etc., but does not seem to like aluminium much at all.
I would also like to be able to etch stainless steel (304/316) for other applications.
Any thoughts?
PS - I am a novice at this etching system, but I am (an older) mechanical engineer, so hopefully I can understand feedback on a technical level?
I’m a bit out of my depth with this right now.
Thanks in advance if you can assist me.
Kind regards, Jonathan.
Assuming your laser is blue, it is vital. and a large part of the reason you are having issues.
Blue surfaces are blue because they reflect the blue light instead of absorbing it. There are other sorts of lasers that will mark it (IR, Red, Green…) but they are typically a lot more expensive than the blue sources for a given power.
The only practical suggestion I can offer is to paint the surface with a matt black paint, etch that and the matt black will (hopefully… no guarantee!) absorb enought of the laser power and heat well enough to mark the blue anodising underneath it.
Once done wash the black paint off with iso-alcohol or acetone, anodizing is tough so it should withstand simple solvents. If worried or unsure do a test piece.
Thank you “Easy”, my new friend.
I have blue anodised “practice” plates for testing, so I will go with your ideas to penetrate the anodising level.
This theory I have done with polycarbonate, with minimal results - The burning of the cover material seemed to heat the poly enough to make an etch, but not much… just a slight impregnation, if that makes sense.
I have also tried etching on “naked” aluminium plates, but with no effect.
Similar with stainless plates.
My gut/testing tells me I need more horse power… ???
Thanks for your help - I will be back tomorrow but need some sleep right now… sorry to be a sook…
Cheers for now, you lovely helpful people - Much appreciated.
JK
Oh, forgot to mention… I am not afraid to buy a new laser, with different wavelengths of light if that does the job.
I need to research more on that, so thank you for pointing that issue out.
Horse power versus intelligence = smart.
That’s the ticket… visible light lasers do not work well for directly engraving metals. Generally speaking dpssl (diode) and co2 work the best with natural materials. These have some overlap but it’s a general statement. Co2 works great on acrylic.
If you want direct metal engraving a fiber type 1064nM… a co2 works well if you wish to apply a coating to bind to the metal.
Some of the high end dpssl (diode) modules state they do metal. I’ve seen the photos of them with metal, but I’ve never seen anything that looks too great.
Check out this video on the xTool D1, it’s cutting metal… you can also see how well it cuts metal…
If you were a customer or even a hobbyist, would that cutting be acceptable?
They get more and more powerful as time marches on…
Thanks Jack & Easy.
Love the input to my knowledge bank - Good to hear from some folks with experience. I do appreciate that… Love learning, and hopefully not the hard way - Although you never forget the hard learnings!
I guess I should be specific or what I am trying to do, so this is it for my primary focus.
I am a vehicle “Approved” certification engineer in Australia, and with certifying vehicles I need to etch 0.6mm aluminium certification plates, which have a blue anodised coating on them.
What I am attempting to do is etching the vehicle specific details onto a Governmental regulated (and Government supplied) VIN plate with specifics of the modified vehicle.
IE - Fill in the gaps on the plate.
I will attempt to attach the VIN plate image I am trying to populate with additional detail, to give you guys a better picture of the project.
So my bold plan is to have the laser fill in the details I need to etch onto the Governmental supplied plate, in the areas destined for such data.
I have 3D printed a “Holder” cradle for the plates so they can be located on the etching table reliably, but I need the laser to etch…
I have practice panels to work on (20 of) as I cannot screw up one of the Governmental supplied plates up - The ramifications are HUGE)
I only need to etch - Not cut, so that might put me in a different range to some of you guys.
Jeeeezus, the 1064nM lasers are price damaging… to me at last.
More home work required.
Thanks for your time and patience, my new friends.
JK
Most people engrave them with a hand engraver - $40 online, but we are looking at a mining fleet of 80 vehicles… damn hard work.
And handwriting skills can effect the clarity of numbers and letters… “8” & “B” for example.
Some use letter and number punches, but that is also messy and labour intensive.
And you cannot screw up one single plate, or there is an intensive amount of explaining to do with the registration board. (Governmental body)
Without knowing for sure what lasers might work on this, and recognizing that the real thing might be using a slightly different dye from your test pieces, have you thought about CNC engraving instead of trying to cook off the dye with a laser?
As far as I can tell from their listings, the S3018 is basically their small CNC engraver fitted with a laser head, and includes a Z stepper. I’m assuming this is what you are using?
Their listings are confusing, so I’m having trouble telling whether they even sell this with only a laser head, so I don’t know whether you also have a spindle for it… But you wouldn’t even need to get a spindle for it if you bought a diamond drag engraving bit; if you have a 3D printer available somehow, you could probably 3D print an adapter to hold the bit in place and drag to make the letters.
Thanks Michael, for your support on this project.
Yes I do have the engraver on the small S2018 unit I am attempting to make work.
The engraver “z” control is not finite enough (to my mind) to control a 0.1/0.2mm etch dept required - The plate does not sit completely flat on the mounting cradle I have designed… The Government supplied plates are not perfectly flat - they are stamped parts.
0.6mm stamped aluminium plate distorts during this process, apparently.
There is at least a 0.2mm bow in the plate as it sits in the cradle, and i do not seem to be able to control that. I assume laser would cope with that tolerance comfortably?
On a mill, a magnetic base would do so, but this is Aluminium (Aluminum for you guys!) and magnetism doesn’t work on that material, as we all know.
So I think (?) I am faced with an issue of how to etch such plates, with efficiency, and the laser option still stands out as the best, but I do like options!
Perhaps I need to research CO2 options?
Coatings (On the original plate) I am interested in, but I would like an elegant solution without coating and clean-up, if you understand my position.
More homework for me, I guess, but any info from you experienced folks is VERY welcome.
Thanks again to all contributing to my little dilemma.
All learning for mine, so all good there!
Love learning new stuff, especially from educated people with a lust for the science.
Thanks again.
Hi again, Michael… This “Diamond Drag” tech I know absolutely nothing about.
I will research it tomorrow (Late here now in Aus) but it does sound interesting.
Yes, I do have a 3D printer available, and I use is often, but at a rudimentary level.
I can design Solidworks models to the same level, and love learning that further too, so a project to chase sounds good to me!
Thanks for the “Heads Up” on this detail.
Cheers again!
Yes, but also a diamond drag bit is spring-loaded specifically to handle this, and is really intended for this purpose.
You use plenty of Z travel for the cut because you want the tip either completely clear of the plate or pressing down firmly into it; unlike a D-bit where a 0.2mm bow in the plate could result in letters not looking the same.
Your holder would need to be precise and an exact fit to keep it from being dragged around at all. You could also use double-sided tape under it to keep the plate from shifting.
(My question about the 3D printer was a little silly, since you had just said you 3d printed a holder for the plates! I lost track of that detail…)
Since you have a spindle, you should be able to chuck a diamond drag engraving bit in the spindle without having to 3d print an adapter — you just don’t turn the spindle on to use it.
I’ve seen diamond drag engraving bits for US$40. Dunno what you’ll find down under.
There are lots of hacks for coatings, and dry moly lube is supposed to often work very well; but given that you can’t really experiment without lots of paperwork, if you do change your mind and use a coating, I would use a commercial product. Here are two:
I have tried it with my NEJE 40630 and can’t get enough heat for it to bond. I asked the laser bond people and their comment about using visible frequency lasers in this class was it’s for co2 machines.
Probably can’t heat it up to the point of bonding… ?
I think all of these laserable coatings are very similar…
There are some fiber machines that may be applicable but even the lost cost ones are about $1500… You can get just the fiber module at a lower cost.
Be aware that many of these are not fiber lasers, they may be 1064nM but they are not amplified by fiber as in the description… The light amplification occurs within the fiber, so there is some size to them.
Anyone interested can see it in this disassembly video of a fiber laser.
At least the Brilliance says that it works with 10W diode lasers; Machining and Microwaves just did a segment where he succeeded, though with one of the new higher-powered (dual-diode I think) diode lasers.
I’d still do the diamond drag bit myself, though!
I read that a 90° tip is best for anodized aluminum. There are some good sources in the US; Carbide 3D has their “MC Etcher” for $40 in both 90° and 120°. But I could imagine that time and cost for international shipping can change things.
Clough42 did a nice intro video on diamond drag engraving some years ago:
One of the cnc grbl senders will allow you to map the surface and make up for variations… sorry I don’t recall what freeware packed I used to do that… now it’s much quicker and lower cost to have them made from my drawings…
I got my little 3018 to do circuit boards. Never had any intentions to use for general engraving …
My addiction surfaced when I mounted the 500mW laser on it… that was my undoing and downfall…
I’m pretty sure that something similar could be built on a 3018 chassis, especially if only needing to peen ally plate, and not iron castings etc…
A big solenoid, sharp pin and something to pwm them should work… not easy, but totally do-able. There are plans for solenoid graver systems online. Eg:
