It’s really hard to see how these guys ever expected this to work. If Joel’s findings are accurate, it looks like it would only have a chance of working if you use consistently sized pellets, so you’re never going to be able to recycle those old prints. You’d also need some sort of consistent reel take-up to prevent stretching/tangling, etc.
I have to admit I have trouble seeing the value to the vast majority of users) of pellet-based extrusion systems or making their own filament, given that manufactured filament is now relatively inexpensive in the scheme of things.
I agree this particular one seems a little rushed, but I like the idea. As with everything else in 3D printing I believe this will iterate quickly to a reliable and cheaper option in a matter of months. Since I work at a school district I would love to see a small micro-industrial version paired with a shredder/chomper that could pulverize water bottles to a consistent granule size and then get output as “free filament.” (I’ll just hold my breath…)
@Kyle_Taylor A risk of course is that if people start throwing all sorts of plastics into these devices, the resulting fumes toxicity could make ABS look like a walk in the park.
The problems of the mechanics aside, I’d be concerned over ensuring the right plastic mix was used. I’ve got a box of “black” plastic. Is it ABS? PLA? PETG? Sure, there are ways to tell, but even if it’s all ABS, is it from the same manufacturer?
It’s also the volume that makes this impractical for most users, I think. If I’m going to use a filament, I want at least 300g on a spool and I simply don’t have that much waste, and don’t believe it’d be possible to get the reliability necessary. 10cm of 1.3mm instead of 1.75mm and I’ve got a potentially failed print.
$800 buys a lot of filament, from a trusted supplier, and 3D printing as a business means I have to use high-quality supplies.
So, the thing is - filament extruders exist. They’re thousands and thousands of dollars. They’re that expensive because they use very specific processes that have been iterated on already.
You can’t use auger bits from Home Depot. You’re not going to get good results in the span of a couple of inches. And professional machines don’t really push plastic so much as draw it out from the dye. They do this because if the plastic is too thick, they can pull faster in order to thin it out, etc.
You need specific pressure zones, and a tapered auger which not only pulls plastic in, but eventually compresses it as well. And you’re not going to do this with a dinky little chinese gear motor either. Commercial machines will turn on the heating elements initially, but there is so much friction generated that they don’t need to run them afterwards.
There’s just not a market for skimping on quality here. You either do them the right way, or you get useless results. Unlike 3D printers which had cost WAY more than the sum of their parts, filament extruders are not inflated in the price department.
The way injection moulding is done, which is same method for creating filament is the auger forcing pellets to extremely high pressure that their own heat from the pressure causes them to melt, at the right time, and at the right consistency.
For filament, you also have to have a controlled cooling zone not open to free air. On top of that, a spool to wind the filament onto, which spins at the same rate as the filament is extruded.
This is the only way to get consistency in the quality, and diameter of the filament.
And on top of all sad. HomeDepot, idea and arduino… do not make industrial equipment. But I dont understand one thing, why is this china dc motor is used instead of nema 17 stepper with cheap planetary gearbox. At least the tork would be enough.
Guys 3D printing was a pie in the sky a few ago…today I can get a printer for $29 onwards…cheaper than some filaments…so let’s work in true open source spirit and help improve on an idea that will eventually lead us to cheap and practical solution for us not only to recycle our failed prints but to help recycle commonly thrown away items. Wouldn’t it be nice to use a used soda bottle to create a new and functional item once we done with it. I for one will continue to scour the forums and find if not combine ideas to make this viable. I did after all work for a major plastics extrusion company and some of the extruders were 20m high for cooling and one these could extrude dual color as well and this was back in 1997. Who knows know that they have. #excited for innovation
@JERRY_NAIDOO Sorry, but no. Those parts already existed at those prices separately and patents allowed 3D printers to be artificially inflated to astronomical heights. You cannot get a 3D printer for $29…maybe $120 or so at best, but in that same deal, that printer is highly likely to not work, burn your house down, and be a terrible product.
Filament machines are not inflated artificially by patent monopolies. They price the machines very close to what they can build them for already. This is one area where the innovation has already happened and it’s not going to get much better.
Tim here, from Filastruder. It is absolutely possible to extrude quality filament on your own. We have customers extruding at +/-0.02mm. W have customers that have extruded thousands of kilograms of filament. There are writeups on the forum, here’s an example: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/14150/abs-terluran-hi10/
Joel said it best when he said it isn’t an out of the box and out pops miles of filament experience. We all wish 3D printers were a plug and play experience too - but they typically aren’t, especially 3D printers from 3-5 years ago. We know about setting first layer heights, setting up slicers, etc. Just like we had to learn those things to be successful 3D printing, there are things to learn in filament extrusion.
PLA is one of the more difficult materials to extrude. I’m surprised Felfil recommends PLA as a first material. It is super, super important to actively dry PLA right before extrusion. Silica packets aren’t enough, one needs an oven or food dehydrator. If the PLA isn’t dry, then it hydrolyzes, becomes brittle, filament diameter varies, etc.
It is imperative that the filament has an undisturbed path to the floor, or better yet, is used with a winder. If the tension on the filament leaving the nozzle varies at all, the resulting diameter will change.
1 meter/minute sounds slow, but it is about 3 times faster than a typical 3D printer consumes filament. As long as you’re running an extruder at least a third of the time the 3D printer is running, you shouldn’t ever run out fo filament.
With that said, filament production is not for everyone. Filament is so inexpensive now that unless you’re going for a custom color or a custom material, it probably doesn’t make sense to make filament on your own. But is it possible? Absolutely.
For recycling ABS, make ABS juice. For recycling any plastic, heating it and rolling it into sheets or putting it into molds may work. Plastic sheets can be used as case sides or for vacuum forming. Making rough cylinders out of plastic may yield something to turn on a lathe. The japanese have a machine that turns oil based products back into oil.
This machine should have a stepper motor and gearing. The motor and display should be in an area isolated from the heat of the heater. You might be able to get a filament puller set up in an inch or two area but it must be manually primed.
If this does not get consistent diameter results, perhaps volumetric options in Marlin may work in combination with a filament width sensor.
I think they may have just looked up YAFL (yet another filament extruder) on thingiverse and decided to try to make money off of designs that may have not allowed sale via the license. I will not even try to look up if the YAFLs have non-commercial clauses or not.
There is another factor that’s called cross linking that limits the perpetual recycling of failed prints and support material using filament production machines like these to make filament for use in 3D printing.
In basic terms each time you heat up a plastic (above its glass transition point) and cool it down you get what is called cross linking. This is akin to what annealing a polymer does to increase the crystallinity. If done just below the glass temperature it just reduces stresses. Higher amounts of cross linking will cause the glass temperature and melt temperature to rise. Mixing used material with new results in a mix of particle melting temperatures in the new filament blend. After 3 or 4 times of recycling you will have a wide range of melting temperatures for particles in your filament where portions of it might not melt and can cause clogs in your nozzle. Your print quality will eventually go down and filament properties will become unpredictable.
This is why they don’t often recycle bottle plastic to make new bottles without converting the plastic back to a monomer and re-polymerizing it first. At least for food grade plastics. Typically the plastic is recycled into other products like automotive parts or carpet fibers. The chemical treatment process to reverse cross linking and re-polymerize it is quite extensive and not something a home hobbyist would likely want to get involved in when making their own filament. Cheaper and more reliable at the moment to just buy a new roll.
There’s too many filament extruder products and I think they prey on customers because they have an incomplete product because of lacking the cooling stage and a puller/winder in order to make consistent filament. And this one seems clearly an unreliable and poorly built product too. And the funny/sad thing is there are so many filament extruder products, so few cooling and pulling/winders. I could go on but it just looks like a scam or a comedy of errors at best.