Twice the gears, twice the fun! Kinda…
Twice the gears, twice the fun! Kinda…
@Thomas_Sanladerer another awesome video! It would be really nice if you could just buy the two hobbed bolts, and leave it up to the maker community up to design 3D Printable housings to be available on Youmagine/Thingiverse.
Great review and I agree completely. The Bondtech supplies an insane amount of torque but at a very high cost.
Now it is possible to configure it in a mostly direct drive with a short tube, but no longer than a traditional greg’s wade. http://i.imgur.com/MCeeKUQ.jpg
It does take some finesse and I suggested to @Martin_Bondeus the need for a direct drop in swap.
Spring gears get you like 95% of the way to maximizing the stepper driver available torque, while the bondtech puts you at like 110%. If you’re trying to get every last mm/s out of your printer the bontech is a good option. But the gear reduction necessary probably starts to hurt your speed before you really get every bit out.
I’m still happy with them but it’s not clear just how much gain you really get.
Super happy to see a shoutout for @Whosa_whatsis , as someone who’s currenrly running into issues with getting the force necessary for volcano extrusion…it peaks my interest but I think I can build my own solution as suggestes. Thanks Tom!
Very nice video, once again
I was looking for more reviews of the Bondtech before making the jump, so this is perfect!
One thing I disagree with though : perhaps it is because I only ever used bowden based printers, but the single biggest point of failure has always been the filament driver : I never managed to get anything truly reliable, even at medium speeds (even on commercial machines).
So if this allows going beyond the meagre 40 mm/s I am printing PLA at, well, than the price might just be justified
But of course this could be just my biais , so thanks for the in-depth review once again !
At least we’re trying to innovate from different angles. But that’s about it.
@Thomas_Sanladerer great video as always. One thing to note is the cost of $180USD. That is the price with VAT which is unfortunately unavoidable for you EU guys. But if you are US based the cost is actually $145 USD, and is even availible shipped locally from SMW3D. They really get you over there on Taxes don’t they.
As far as load times I made a button using a octoprint plugin for load and unload. Filament changes are at least as fast as a spring loaded for me, and I have a nearly 950mm length bowden tube. I can even perform high speed cold pulls (due to the extra grip). Just set the button code for a high speed retract length even to the length of the bowden tube. My script is:
G1 E-970 F1500
For filament variation I never ever change my C-C distance on the pulleys. Since you have grip to spare and filament can mesh into the hobb groves if it is slightly oversized I have found personally it is a non-issue.
Another great advantage is my retracts. I retract at 80mm/s on my bowden with the Bondtec. Many have told me those speeds are not advisable with a geared nema17. But I took apart my stepper gearbox about 3 months ago and there is zero wear. Having a reliable high speed retract has allowed me to print with a bowden much closer to the performance of direct drive.
I guess one last note is that more than the grip the biggest value in the Bondtech is reliability. In the more than a year of using it I have NEVER had a filament related print failure. Not one. No jams, no under extruded layers, nothing. It is almost so consistent that when other people complain about extrusion issues I have forgotten what they are talking about. So me there in lies the value. When I print very large items, I never worry if the print will complete. I hit print, and walk away. For me that benefit is not measurable with $
My attempt at a cheaper (though heavier) version that uses off-the-shelf parts… https://github.com/elliotf/two-motor-extruder
Unfortunately I only have 3mm filament and my little 4988 drivers don’t seem to want to push enough current to make 3mm bowden work with an e3dv6 hotend.
@Nathan_Walkner I beg to differ that it is not worth the cost. But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine just differs from yours I guess. But I have used the product for more than a year. For cost there are economics of scale on gear production, components, and housings. But I know getting the cost down is one of Martins goals.
The Nylon SLS is impressive when you get your hands on it, an is an excellent solution until volumes can justify injection molding.
To help lower costs for those with a lower available budget Martin also offers just the components where you supply the stepper, or kits where you print the housing (stls are available for you to download).
If you look through comments, those that have used the product have a very markedly different opinion than those that have not. So I would consider the opinion of those that have used it before passing final judgment on its value. For me value is worth more than cost, and I have run over 32kg of filament through this extruder, on some prints that took up to 3days and spanned multiple spools.
But I guess that’s just one guys opinion.
The Bondtech’s biggest benefit seems to be in Bowden use, when you’re trying to overcome the drag of the tube. I’ve seen the gears in person, they’re very well machined and the parts are expertly designed. I hope to order a set in a month or two.
@Nathan_Walkner Spot on comment regarding confirmation bias.
Of course the people who have bought one have a different opinion. People would rather talk up a product they bought instead of admit they might have wasted their money.
@Richard_Kranium and people who judge without experience stand on a higher ground? I am sorry to pick on you, but questioning if I understand the difference between performance and cost not only insults me but shows you know nothing about me or my experience in this area. I do not like things because it costs more, I like things because they perform better. I have used wades, air-tripper, hercustruder (my own design), ezstruder, planetcnc Bowden extruder, and many others. The Bondtech is the only one to NEVER gives me any issues. I print regularly above 150mm/s so I know what it means to push my printer hard.
So please think what you want, but if you have no basis for comparison because you have never used the Bondtech, then who has the more objective opinion… You… Or me.
@Eclsnowman Classic. “You have to buy one to know.” That’s just a classic trap, and counter to the point of reviews.
A good designer can judge something by inspection with enough information without having to literally buy something to figure it out.
It’s good that someone is pushing the boundaries, but for anyone not engaging in a penis contest, it’s not really worth the price currently.
@Richard_Kranium alright, you are super smart and I am an idiot. You win. Enjoy your superiority. I will just get back to printing.