Steppers Not running smooth

grwarlock_SW · May 8, 2017, 2:50pm

Hi,

I have a Smoothie board on a custom printer.

It is setup and prints a test object to the correct size.

My issue is that the motor’s are not smooth and transmit that to my prints.

I am used to hearing them sing (Changed from RAMPS Board) while they print but the noise they are make on Smoothie is well…. Sounds like bass and not treble.
the steps seem to be like there jumping from one step to the next and not flowing from one to the other.

They are Nema 17’s on a prusa type printer
Current 1.5 (this is set at that in config.)
Steps 1.8 (Set to 160 per the 32 on SB X/Y)

Like I said it prints the parts correct, so I am at a loss as to what I might have missed.
Can’t find and info on how to correct it.
Can you help me please ?

Thank’s
Ken

Imported from wikidot

Jeremy_Locke_SW · May 11, 2017, 9:30pm

I have ringing and other printing artifacts. I have not figured out how to get rid of them.

Arthur_Wolf · May 15, 2017, 6:19am

This is often just due to the printer itself having some “play” and/or not being mechanically perfect, which amplifies the small vibrations the motors make.

But if you say it worked on RAMPS, then I would expect the problem is that you have the current set too high.

You can try reducing the current to 1.2A, and if your firmware is very old, updating to the very latest edge firmware and matching example configuration file. But this is very unlikely to have anything to do with Smoothie itself, as the board is very well known for not having this problem on machines that are mechanically well designed/assembled.

Singuras_Ds_SW · May 17, 2017, 10:14pm

Hello. I have similar problem to. Im using smoothi board for my CNC machine. When im using small speed like 100-500mm\min steppers running not smooth. Im using 1\128 microstep. The motor shaft moves noticeable jerks. Im using latest firmware, here my cfg:

# NOTE Lines must not exceed 132 characters ## Robot module configurations : general handling of movement G-codes and slicing into moves default_feed_rate 1000 # Default rate ( mm/minute ) for G1/G2/G3 moves default_seek_rate 1000 # Default rate ( mm/minute ) for G0 moves mm_per_arc_segment 0.0 # Fixed length for line segments that divide arcs 0 to disable mm_max_arc_error 0.01 # The maximum error for line segments that divide arcs 0 to disable # note it is invalid for both the above be 0 # if both are used, will use largest segment length based on radius #mm_per_line_segment 5 # Lines can be cut into segments ( not usefull with cartesian # coordinates robots ). grbl_mode true # Arm solution configuration : Cartesian robot. Translates mm positions into stepper positions alpha_steps_per_mm 135.88 # Steps per mm for alpha stepper beta_steps_per_mm 135.88 # Steps per mm for beta stepper gamma_steps_per_mm 3200 # Steps per mm for gamma stepper Planner module configuration : Look-ahead and acceleration configuration planner_queue_size 32 # DO NOT CHANGE THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING acceleration 50 # Acceleration in mm/second/second. #z_acceleration 50 # Acceleration for Z only moves in mm/s^2, 0 uses acceleration which is the default. DO NOT SET ON A DELTA junction_deviation 0.01 # Similar to the old “max_jerk”, in millimeters, # Lower values mean being more careful, higher values means being # faster and have more jerk #z_junction_deviation 0.0 # for Z only moves, -1 uses junction_deviation, zero disables junction_deviation on z moves DO NOT SET ON A DELTA #minimum_planner_speed 0.0 # sets the minimum planner speed in mm/sec Stepper module configuration microseconds_per_step_pulse 1 # Duration of step pulses to stepper drivers, in microseconds (bylo 9) base_stepping_frequency 100000 # Base frequency for stepping Cartesian axis speed limits x_axis_max_speed 3000 # mm/min y_axis_max_speed 3000 # mm/min z_axis_max_speed 3000 # mm/min Stepper module pins ( ports, and pin numbers, appending “!” to the number will invert a pin ) alpha_step_pin 2.0!o # Pin for alpha stepper step signal alpha_dir_pin 0.5o # Pin for alpha stepper direction alpha_en_pin 0.4!o # Pin for alpha enable pin alpha_current 1.5 # X stepper motor current alpha_max_rate 2000.0 # mm/min beta_step_pin 2.1!o # Pin for beta stepper step signal beta_dir_pin 0.11o # Pin for beta stepper direction beta_en_pin 0.10!o # Pin for beta enable beta_current 1.5 # Y stepper motor current beta_max_rate 2000.0 # mm/min gamma_step_pin 2.2!o # Pin for gamma stepper step signal gamma_dir_pin 0.20o # Pin for gamma stepper direction gamma_en_pin 0.19!o # Pin for gamma enable gamma_current 1.5 # Z stepper motor current gamma_max_rate 300.0 # mm/min System configuration Serial communications configuration ( baud rate defaults to 9600 if undefined ) uart0.baud_rate 9600 # Baud rate for the default hardware serial port (basic 115200) second_usb_serial_enable false # This enables a second usb serial port (to have both pronterface # and a terminal connected) #leds_disable true # disable using leds after config loaded #play_led_disable true # disable the play led Kill button (used to be called pause) maybe assigned to a different pin, set to the onboard pin by default #kill_button_enable true # set to true to enable a kill button #kill_button_pin 2.12 # kill button pin. default is same as pause button 2.12 (2.11 is another good choice) #msd_disable false # disable the MSD (USB SDCARD) when set to true (needs special binary) #dfu_enable false # for linux developers, set to true to enable DFU #watchdog_timeout 10 # watchdog timeout in seconds, default is 10, set to 0 to disable the watchdog Only needed on a smoothieboard currentcontrol_module_enable true # delta_current 1.5 # First extruder stepper motor current #switch.misc.enable true # #switch.misc.input_on_command M42 # #switch.misc.input_off_command M43 # #switch.misc.output_pin 2.4 # #switch.misc.output_type digital # just an on or off pin Switch module for spindle control spindle.enable true # spindle.type analog # set the spindle type to analog, can also be used for ESC spindles controlled by a PWM spindle.max_rpm 24000 # set the max spindle speed that is achieved at 100% PWM spindle.pwm_pin 2.4 # the pin which emits the PWM signal spindle.pwm_period 2000 # the PWM frequency spindle.switch_on_pin 2.6 # the pin which is used to enable the VFD (optional) Endstops endstops_enable true # the endstop module is enabled by default and can be disabled here #corexy_homing false # set to true if homing on a hbot or corexy alpha_min_endstop nc # add a ! to invert if endstop is NO connected to ground alpha_max_endstop 1.25^! # NOTE set to nc if this is not installed alpha_homing_direction home_to_max # or set to home_to_max and set alpha_max alpha_min 0 # this gets loaded after homing when home_to_min is set alpha_max 988 # this gets loaded after homing when home_to_max is set beta_min_endstop nc # beta_max_endstop 1.27^! # beta_homing_direction home_to_max # beta_min 0 # beta_max 747 # gamma_min_endstop nc # gamma_max_endstop 1.29^! # gamma_homing_direction home_to_max # gamma_min 0 # gamma_max 210 # alpha_max_travel 2200 # max travel in mm for alpha/X axis when homing beta_max_travel 2000 # max travel in mm for beta/Y axis when homing gamma_max_travel 1000 # max travel in mm for gamma/Z axis when homing optional order in which axis will home, default is they all home at the same time, if this is set it will force each axis to home one at a time in the specified order #homing_order ZYX # x axis followed by y then z last #move_to_origin_after_home false # move XY to 0,0 after homing optional enable limit switches, actions will stop if any enabled limit switch is triggered #alpha_limit_enable true # set to true to enable X min and max limit switches #beta_limit_enable true # set to true to enable Y min and max limit switches #gamma_limit_enable true # set to true to enable Z min and max limit switches alpha_fast_homing_rate_mm_s 150 # feedrates in mm/second beta_fast_homing_rate_mm_s 150 # " gamma_fast_homing_rate_mm_s 20 # " alpha_slow_homing_rate_mm_s 15 # " beta_slow_homing_rate_mm_s 15 # " gamma_slow_homing_rate_mm_s 5 # " alpha_homing_retract_mm 5 # distance in mm beta_homing_retract_mm 5 # " gamma_homing_retract_mm 1 # " #endstop_debounce_count 100 # uncomment if you get noise on your endstops, default is 100 Z-probe zprobe.enable false # set to true to enable a zprobe zprobe.probe_pin 1.28!^ # pin probe is attached to if NC remove the ! zprobe.slow_feedrate 5 # mm/sec probe feed rate #zprobe.debounce_count 100 # set if noisy zprobe.fast_feedrate 100 # move feedrate mm/sec zprobe.probe_height 5 # how much above bed to start probe #gamma_min_endstop nc # normally 1.28. Change to nc to prevent conflict, associated with zprobe the leveling strategy to use #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.enable true # a leveling strategy that probes three points to define a plane and keeps the Z parallel to that plane #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.point1 100.0,0.0 # the first probe point (x,y) optional may be defined with M557 #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.point2 200.0,200.0 # the second probe point (x,y) #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.point3 0.0,200.0 # the third probe point (x,y) #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.home_first true # home the XY axis before probing #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.tolerance 0.03 # the probe tolerance in mm, anything less that this will be ignored, default is 0.03mm #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.probe_offsets 0,0,0 # the probe offsets from nozzle, must be x,y,z, default is no offset #leveling-strategy.three-point-leveling.save_plane false # set to true to allow the bed plane to be saved with M500 default is false Panel panel.enable true # set to true to enable the panel code Example for reprap discount GLCD on glcd EXP1 is to left and EXP2 is to right, pin 1 is bottom left, pin 2 is top left etc. +5v is EXP1 pin 10, Gnd is EXP1 pin 9 panel.lcd reprap_discount_glcd # panel.spi_channel 0 # spi channel to use ; GLCD EXP1 Pins 3,5 (MOSI, SCLK) panel.spi_cs_pin 0.16 # spi chip select ; GLCD EXP1 Pin 4 panel.encoder_a_pin 3.25!^ # encoder pin ; GLCD EXP2 Pin 3 panel.encoder_b_pin 3.26!^ # encoder pin ; GLCD EXP2 Pin 5 panel.click_button_pin 1.30!^ # click button ; GLCD EXP1 Pin 2 panel.buzz_pin 1.31 # pin for buzzer ; GLCD EXP1 Pin 1 panel.back_button_pin 2.11!^ # back button ; GLCD EXP2 Pin 8 panel.encoder_resolution 4 # number steps per 1 menu move panel.button_pause_pin 2.11^ # kill/pause ; GLCD EXP2 Pin 8 either pins used with other panels #panel.up_button_pin 0.1! # up button if used #panel.down_button_pin 0.0! # down button if used #panel.click_button_pin 0.18! # click button if used panel.menu_offset 0 # some panels will need 1 here setup for external sd card on the GLCD which uses the onboard sdcard SPI port panel.external_sd true # set to true if there is an extrernal sdcard on the panel panel.external_sd.spi_channel 1 # set spi channel the sdcard is on panel.external_sd.spi_cs_pin 0.28 # set spi chip select for the sdcard (or any spare pin) panel.external_sd.sdcd_pin 0.27!^ # sd detect signal (set to nc if no sdcard detect) (or any spare pin) grbl_mode true panel.alpha_jog_feedrate 6000 # x jogging feedrate in mm/min panel.beta_jog_feedrate 6000 # y jogging feedrate in mm/min panel.gamma_jog_feedrate 200 # z jogging feedrate in mm/min panel.hotend_temperature 185 # temp to set hotend when preheat is selected panel.bed_temperature 60 # temp to set bed when preheat is selected Custom menus : Example of a custom menu entry, which will show up in the Custom entry. NOTE _ gets converted to space in the menu and commands, | is used to separate multiple commands custom_menu.power_on.enable true # custom_menu.power_on.name Power_on # custom_menu.power_on.command M80 # custom_menu.power_off.enable true # custom_menu.power_off.name Power_off # custom_menu.power_off.command M81 # Network settings network.enable true # enable the ethernet network services network.webserver.enable true # enable the webserver network.telnet.enable true # enable the telnet server network.ip_address auto # use dhcp to get ip address uncomment the 3 below to manually setup ip address #network.ip_address 192.168.3.222 # the IP address #network.ip_mask 255.255.255.0 # the ip mask #network.ip_gateway 192.168.3.1 # the gateway address #network.mac_override xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx # override the mac address, only do this if you have a conflict ##Drilling cycles drillingcycles.enable true # Enable drillingcycles module. drillingcycles.dwell_units P # Dwell units S = seconds, P = millis. Kill button module kill_button_enable true # set to true to enable a kill button kill_button_pin 2.11^ # kill button pin. default is same as pause button 2.12 (Add ^ for external buttons)

#switch.kill_button.enable true #switch.kill_button.output_pin 2.11^ #switch.kill_button.input_on_command M26 #M26 #switch.kill_button.input_off_command M999 #

grwarlock_SW · May 18, 2017, 2:25pm

Arthur,

While I agree that the build of the printer can be the cause this is not. The printer is a custom build of my own. I have built it to close tolerances.
I wanted a printer that would give me as close to perfect as could be. It has worked well with RepRap Ramps 1.4 , Rumba and other boards.
I came to Smoothie after researching and finding your board was the best there is out there at this time.
I have 4 printers of different sizes. I have changed the board in one of them to smoothie. This is the one that seems to have motion jerks when moving like our friend above in this post.

I am disappointed only in the fact of support. Seems it takes forever to get a answer here. This does not fair well for promoting this project.
I want to promote it, I believe from what I read on it that this is the board to have.

Don’t take this in the wrong way I am only trying to point out what I am seeing as a new user to your project and that others might be turned off by the same.

Back to the issue.

Ok,

Here is what it seems to act like. If I were to take a educated guess it almost seems as if the frequency at which the steppers are modulated is way low.
When they move they seem to do it almost as if jumping from magnetic poll to poll. I did try changing the freq. in the config. file but this changed nothing.
My setup is very close to the one posted above.

Power, grounds and isolation has all be gone over more than once to be sure to eliminate cross talk and other possible interference.

There is a picture on the google groups of the print.
Hope you can shed some light on what might be the cause.

Thanks ahead,
Ken

Arthur_Wolf · May 21, 2017, 8:15am

I really think your comments about answer speed are misplaced, Smoothie has 10 times better support ( more communication channels, more activity, more documentation ) than any other similar project. You are just using the slowest method for getting help by going through the forum. If you are in a hurry, use IRC or Google+. I even answer emails about Smoothie most of the time within the same day ( though I ask you try IRC and G+ first ).

About your problem, you complain you are not getting enough help, but I told you to do two things, and you did not do any of them ( that I can see ). We can’t help you efficiently if you don’t participate. Please follow the advice in my previous message and come back to us with more info.

grwarlock_SW · May 21, 2017, 6:34pm

Yes, I answered one of them. “This is often just due to the printer itself having some “play” and/or not being mechanically perfect, which amplifies the small vibrations the motors make.”

The other on Current…. Set it to spec. then reduced it to try and see if this eliminated it, It did not.

I did wipe and re flash with the latest but this also seemed to not help.

It does this on all motors including the extruder. I have another board coming and should be here tomorrow. I will install it and see if it might be some hardware issue.

I did ask on google + but also got no answer to this date. I was not aware of the IRC but I am now and will go there as I am sure there are ones who monitor all the time on it.

My post here was on the 8th, you replied on the 15th. I am glad that you let me know there are more direct channels and that this forum is not monitored as much. I think this will also help others to know where they can go to get fast answers to there questions.

Arthur_Wolf · May 23, 2017, 4:56am

My post here was on the 8th, you replied on the 15th.

I was away traveling. I check this forum daily otherwise. And if you look at other posts, you’ll see that they get answers much faster than yours did. The reason is that your post wasn’t easy to answer. Therefore it’s normal it took longer than easy questions.

Let’s see how things go with your other board.

FDM101_SW · May 24, 2017, 8:04pm

“My issue is that the motor’s are not smooth and transmit that to my prints.
I am used to hearing them sing (Changed from RAMPS Board) while they print but the noise they are make on Smoothie is well…. Sounds like bass and not treble.
the steps seem to be like there jumping from one step to the next and not flowing from one to the other.”

Grwarlock, the arduino boards can produce the same growl, or bass sound that you are hearing with the smoothie board. This comes from too much current supplied to the stepper. Also consider your highest microstep setting with most pololu drivers is 32. The move to 128 microstepps will produce a different sound.
I have a breadboard set up to jump all the connections from the ramps board to the arduino module. This board also runs the power supply pin through an ammeter to help me “tune” my arduino pots. Here’s what I’ve found:

At the spec current most stepper motors are “over-powered” and tend over heat. On my 12 volt systems I have the current below 0.7 amps. This does not harm performance whatsoever and the motors run quiet. I recently built a delta printer with the smoothie board. I am running 24 volts and the stepper current is set at 0.5 amps. I’m running at 150mm/s with no lost steps, there is more torque in the motors than is needed for running a 3d printer which has very little mechanical resistance.
There is an additional benefit to running low current…… If your machine ends up over-traveling to where the carriage crashes into the limits of the machine, your motors will not over-power the belt and pulleys…

My advice: Lower your current to 0.5A and test it at high speed. If you do not loose steps there is no need to up the current. Lowering your current will lower the temperature of your steppers, they will produce less noise, and as a side benefit, your machine will suffer less damage if it crashes.