Genmitsu Router / Engraver

FreeCAD 0.19 does feel like a significant improvement overall and I have learnt to model parts and create technical drawings. I had a look at creating tool paths, but it looked quite daunting. Probably because at that point I hadn’t really got to grips with what the 3018 was able to do in terms of feedrate and plunge rates. Now I finally have a stiffer machine the numbers are now more reasonable. I will have another look at FreeCAD and see if I can do something simple.

I’m now using 2mm milling cutter store aluminium bits, running at around 4000rpm, 0.1mm depth of cut, 200mm/min plungerate and 120mm/min feedrate.

2 Likes

Machining aluminium sheet is only possible using sandbags for damping.

Actually, sand and cast iron bags. I really like the cast iron (swarf/dust) bags as they are that bit heavier, but the cloth bags do get grubby. The downside is the table weighs more and so the steppers now have to generate more torque to accelerate it, F=ma

3 Likes

Yeah, I found that getting the tools set up is a lot of work. I think once that is set up, jobs and ops aren’t terrible. But picking edges when that’s necessary has been fiddly at least for me. Most of what I’ve done was with 0.18.

The grbl pre-processor finally doesn’t assume that the sender is implementing macros like drill cycles; it has an option for raw grbl gcode, which makes it a better match.

2 Likes

Just made a sprung D-bit to see if that would allow me to engrave brass

It appears to work quite well with brass. I will try some other materials.

2 Likes

I’ve now made up some stiffening brackets using 1mm aluminium sheet, this is probably one of the most significant upgrades you can make.

These triangulate between the chassis, upright post and the upper cross beams. They also join the upper cross beams.

Simple to make and a significant upgrade.

4 Likes

A quick video walk around of the machine that is now able to machine brass.

I’m very pleased with where this has go to, but this is not a cheap machine anymore with the upgrades and hours involved in improving each aspect. On the very positive side I have learnt a lot.

3 Likes

I just noticed this sign on Mark Presling’s sticker board while watching his latest video series and thought “wait a minute, I’ve seen this before!” :smiling_face:

3 Likes

yes, thank you

I machined the letter mask out of thin plywood and then used very fine wires to hold the centre of the letters in place. That allowed me to use them with fine enamel dust.

Not perfect, but gave quite a nice result

1 Like

Does anybody know if there are higher torque steppers that are a drop in replacement for the standard ones on the Genmitsu 3018 pro?

I thought about driving the spindle separately to allow the powersupply/driver board to run the steppers more easily

Aren’t they standard NEMA17 steppers? Those are available in a bewildering variety. Want to post the model numbers from the existing motor for us to review?

Does the board use step sticks or are the stepper drivers integrated onto the board? You’ll need higher current from the stepper driver; if you use a motor capable of more torque, but drive the same current through it (from not changing the settings on the board), you won’t see improved torque.

1 Like

Steppers come in an array of different currents and voltages for the same torque, here’s an example of 1.5A motors from the Kysan catalog (their PDF version is better oorganized), remember that power is current times voltage. Stepper drivers hide the voltage from us since they control the delivered current and let the voltage settle where it wants. While there are some consequences from the increased inductance of the lower amp bigger motors they’re likely not very significant with a 3018.

There were two controllers that I’m aware of on the Sainsmart 3018 Pro. My 2019 model had a Camtool V3.3 controller with stepsticks, shipped with DRV8025s that I replaced with A4988s when the magic smoke and flames escaped from one board. Since those boards were jumpered for max microstepping that doubled the max travel speed, 3018s are limited by grbl’s 30K/set max step rate. The current shipping controller has soldered on drivers (DRV8825s jumped for 16x microstepping iirc) covered with a usually blue aluminum bar style heatsink and in a plastic case with a fan. That’s the Woodpecker V3.4. You can use either for around 1.6A (adjusting that is called “setting Vref”, Google or the Duck will find lots of references for 3018s). They claim higher currents, but we all know how marketing claims go. The PROVer used a different controller, as does the new 3018 V2.

I’d usually say that the components on most 3018s are well matched to the machine’s limitations, but Nigel’s well past that. Shouldn’t be too hard to find something that exceeds the 0.25Nm of the stock motors. Use Kysan, search Amazon (adjust for your country) for examples, or 3018nc.com carries bigger 0.55Nm steppers although they’re on the pricier side. That site should be on every 3018 modders bookmark list.

For a controller replacement I’d take a look at the blue pill that @GrblGru posted, or my favorite FluidNC/ESP32 version, with external drivers but either of those sound like overkill. Spindle control will probably take an external mosfet board since those may not have a spindle mosfet on board. Trying the bigger stepper and adjusting Vref would be a better first attempt.

3 Likes

yes they are Nema17 steppers and I think 0.25Nm

I cut these two gears in the week. The one on the right was first and then I set it up to cut the one on the left and walked away…

As you can see it jumped between the centre hole and the gear outline. So, this afternoon I watched it. The issue was the acceleration and max speed for the movement was set very high, beyond the capability of the 3108. I had been reducing the cutting speed to 60mm/s and hence was getting great results in brass. However, the movement between was hitting the acceleration limits of the machine and it was jumping.

I have powered the spindle separately and that might have helped the machine overall, but not sure. Limiting the speed and acceleration within GRBL has had a massive impact.

Should I upgrade the steppers and board? Or should I go and upgrade to a better Machine?

I haven’t checked the controller board, think I bought this in June 2020, but might have been old stock.

Looking online I can buy 0.55Nm Nema17 steppers and could replace the X and Y with these.

I also thought about running a tooth belt 2:1 reduction and at the same time fitting thrust bearings on the leadscrews. 0.55Nm and 2:1 would be really good.

1 Like

screen shot from GRBL for the latest settings

3018 grbl settings

Although, when machining brass I’m limiting the speed to 60mm/s

I might take the acceleration down from 30 to 20mm/s2

Might consider a board that can communicate to trinamic drivers on board. They can detect skipped steps by back-EMF.

1 Like

I bought the 3018 to have a play with cnc and it has been a great learning tool, however, having upgraded so much of it I wonder if I continue to upgrade or just buy something better?

1 Like

I have a thoroughly modded 3018 that I keep around even though I have access to more machines, mainly because it’s fun and it takes up very little room in my small shop.

That said, if there’s something about it that’s stopping your fun (too small bed, can’t cut steel, etc) then that seems to me like a good opportunity to start considering a new machine.

3 Likes

Is it cutting full depth? I wonder if your plunge speeds are too aggressive and it’s losing steps when plunge cutting, and then not retracting far enough to move across the surface. Are you using a center cutting bit, some don’t cut fully across the bottom of the bit and require ramping (using an angled cut instead of straight down)? It looks like it cut the actual gear like it should have (the reflections make it harder to tell) with no stairstepping, then retracted and dragged on the surface and missed some steps in X which caused the off-center shaft hole, the offset matches the scratch mark. If it was acceleration you’d expect to see it losing position in both X and Y while cutting.

Acceleration and speeds can be much higher during non-cutting travel (rapid) moves than with cutting since there’s a lot less loading on the machine than when it’s shoving a bit through material that’s fighting back. Air is a lot easier to move through than brassRather than using Candle’s settings (it reads a few of the full set and does some limited altering) use the command line to do a $$ command and see all of them. Change a setting with a $nnn=xxx command (for example $30=8000), it’s then saved on the board and survives power cycles.

WRT to the settings changes, your rapid speed is missing a zero (at least for 800 s/mm drivers). Rapids are unloaded travel moves, not max cutting speed which you control in your CAM software (curious, what is it?). Don’t know about your modified machine, but stock 3018s are usually limited by grbl’s step rate. For the common 800 steps/mm drivers it’s 2500 (using the 80% of absolute max rule), others will be proportional. Grbl crashes when you exceed the limit so it’s pretty easy to determine. 30mm/sec^2 is the typical 3018 default, I use 500 on X and 300 on Y for my mostly wood cutting 3018. It would work over 1000, but the machine shook so bad it wanted to fall off the table, 500/300 (the 300 might be excessively conservative) cut my job run times in half, going over 1000 only made a small decrease.

There’s no actual spindle speed feedback on these machines, the max spindle speed only varies the PWM (pulse width modulation, i.e. percent on vs off time) algorithm. Your 1000 means 1000 rpm or greater (it limits at 100%, alas) will be 100% on time, 500 will be half, etc. I usually set it to around 8000 for the stock spindle (your modified spindle may be different), or whatever the spec is for upgrades, but it’s usually not very important. The 775’s cutting torque drops off pretty fast as you lower the rpm, where possible it’s usually best to keep it at full speed but your brass cutting might need a lower speed or fewer flutes on the cutting bit.

Candle’s feed rate sliders are a great way to adjust non-rapid (i.e. cutting) speeds on the fly, I usually start much lower than I expect will work and ramp the speed up until it starts chattering, the cut looks bad, or the machine sounds unhappy. I’d experiment with upping (or holding constant) the feed rate and reducing the depth of cut, and see how that works out. Might want to experiment with a chip load calculator and table and see if that helps, surface speed might be an issue (experiment!) with the low power spindle, while reducing the depth of cut for cut and machine happiness. I suspect you’re cutting too fast and/or deep for the low powered machine.

I bought Art Fenerty’s gear software, Gearotic, back around 2008ish. Pretty much any kind of gear you can think of plus an eclectic set of other gadgets and tools. Art’s currently developing a motion simulator for kinetic art that’s still part of my original license. A year or so ago we bought a 1920s long case (“grandfather”) clock from a retired clock maker, he had a homemade gear shaper for clock sized brass gears that was part of the clock and shop tour.

1 Like

There’s several of these closed loop steppers, stock steppers with an encoder and separate control board. Trying them remains on my todo list, too many other things going on. Iirc they’re mostly copies of an open source design (well, consider the source) that a search engine might dig up.

Ask yourself what your goal is, which is the most fun. Do you enjoy modding and improving the machine, or are you more interested in getting your projects done?

2 Likes